Monday, May 04, 2015
Lithuania's Connection to Khazaria Through Naming Process
Nadene Goldfoot
Our paternal grandparents, Nathan (Hebrew is Natan) Abraham Goldfus/foot b: 1870 in Telsiai, Lithuania and his wife, Hattie "Zlota" Jermulowski/e b: 1875 in Lazdijai, Lithuania had immigrated to the USA and met in Council, Idaho, a little mining mountain town which is now a stop on the way to a lake resort of McCall, Idaho. There, Hattie's sisters and their husbands lived in their first years in the Golden Medina.
Nathan's Y DNA haplogroup is Q1b1 which is found to be in 5% of the Jewish people. . Where did we pick up this male line that is fairly rare?
Pesakh and Pesah were used by Khazarian Jews in the 10th century. It was also a title in the Khazar Khaganate. "The term Baliqchi means "Fisherman." In the Schechter Letter, the Khazar warlord, Pesakh (who was active along the Strait of Kerch) is described with this title. He was an earlier figure in Khazar history,"
The name Pesach or Pesakh was generally only used by Jews in eastern Germany which was the area east of the Elbe River and Eastern Europe as well as with the Karaites and Persian Jews, but not by Sephardic Jews.
The Yiddish form of Peysakh was being used by Jews in Silesia, Poland in the mid-14th century and also in medieval Germany.
The Hebrew word for Passover is the western Ashkenazic form, Peysakh. Pesakh. was used as a first name. During the 15th and 16th centuries, some Jews in Brest, France; Grodno, Belarus; and Pinsk, Belarus used the name, Pesakh.
From the late 15th century onward, Peysakh was found among Jews in Ukraine and Belarus. Peysakh then was chosen as an Ashkenazic surname-Peysakhowitz.
Pesach and the surname of Pesachowitz were used among some Polish Jews into the 19th and 20th centuries.
Nathan is not listed in my Russian -Jewish Given names book by Boris Feldblyum but the Hebrew is listed as Natan, typical from the SW Russian Empire of Volhyn and Podolia Provinces. Neither is Abraham, but in the back of my book, Abram=Avram is listed and it's also on page 34 as Abram of SW Russian Empire Volhyn and Podolia Provinces.
He even named his 3rd child Abraham. Nathan was a family name handed down with its origins not being in Russia. Nathan was tall with brown hair that had red highlights. Zlota had to stand on a chair for him to kiss her. Neither had much of a choice for a spouse, as they were the only 2 Jewish singles in Council and didn't want to wait for any better prospects, I suppose. They were both Litvaks, and that was enough. Besides that, she could cook.
Jews entered Lithuania about in 1321. In 1398, a community -mostly Karaites-existed at Troki.
In 1495, Jews were living in Vilna, Grodno and Kovno totally 10,000. From 1495 (3 years after Spain's expelling Jews not converting) to 1502 they were excluded from Lithuania.
They received a charter in 1529 guaranteeing freedom of movement and employment. Soon they monopolized foreign trade and tax-farming. Yes, that is what my encyclopedia said, whatever tax-farming is.
From 1566 to 1572 the Jews were forced to wear the Jewish badge newly introduced and in legal matters, they were disqualified from giving evidence in court.
Telsai, where my grandfather was from, was one of the oldest towns in Lithuania situated in the NW on the shores of Lake Mastis, mentioned by Crusaders in 1320. They had a Swedish invasion in 1710, which surprises me as the Q haplotype is found among Swedes, also. 2/3 of the population perished from epidemics at that time. Did the Swedes bring them on?
Poland at one time was the largest country in Europe, and included today's Polish borders and Galicia, Lithuania, White Russia and the Ukraine. Their hereditary monarchy came to an end in 1572 and the next 200 years to 1772 had a system of elective monarchy. In 1772 the country was carved up and given out to Germany, Austria and Russia. By 1795, Poland had disappeared from the map altogether. it didn't reappear until 1918.
A chain of Jewish migrations leading from Khazaria went to the Lithuanian Grand Duchy. This Grand Duchy started in the 13th Century and went on till 1795. It got its name from a Baltic tribe. Our surname is German, though, and was originally Goldfus. In fact, it was a German and Austrian Gentile name, too. There are Goldfoot of a different haplogroup, not Jewish. It is, however, not a common name for Jews or Gentiles.
This shows our male line got to Lithuania through the normal highway from Jerusalem in 70 CE from the Romans burning it down and taking over through Rome, France, and then to Germany. When they were not accepted there, they moved on to Eastern Europe, and to Lithuania.
In Austria The Emperor Joseph made Jews take on last names in the late 1700s. Poland in 1821 and Russia in 1844. Probably some of our families have only had last names for 175 years or less. In France and the Anglo Saxon countries surnames went back to the 16th century.
"German Jews had no official surnames prior to the introduction of Judenregelment in 1797" "In most of Germany, Jews didn't have surnames until 1812 or later. Many names they took were based on the profession of the person.
In 1764-66 there were 621,000 Jews in Poland and Lithuania according to the Polish census
Until 1795, Telz, as it is also called, was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom, when the 3rd division of Poland by the 3 superpowers then; Russia, Prussia and Austria-caused Lithuania to become partly Russian and partly Prussian. I believe this is what happened to my grandmother Zlota's Lazdijai. Telz fell under Russian rule, 1st from 1802 as part of the Vilna Province (Gubernia) as a district administrative center and then from 1843 as part of the Kovno Province.
1812 and Napoleon's retreating army passed through Telz, leaving behind desolation and a big gun, now seen in the town park. There were the Polish rebellions of 1831 and 1863. They caused damage.
My grandmother's name, Zlata, is a Russian Jewish name from the Baltic Provinces such as Estland, Courland and Lyfland. It came from Bet shmu'el. She was very short, about 4' 8" at her tallest, and was only 4'6" when she was a grandmother and had had her legs broken on top of that in a pogrom. She had black curly hair, and I thought skin of normal color, not dark or suntanned. Zlata's MT dna haplogroup was W for Wilma. "W (Wilma) is a small group that appears in the western Ural Mountains, the natural border between Europe and Asia and the eastern Baltic area, and is also found in India. Actually, 14 types are found in Ashkenazie Jews that were found by Behar, main researcher in dna of the Jewish people. My grandmother was W 16145A, 16223T, 16265G, 16519C. Jewish W made up 3.1% in a test in Poland and 2.7% in Russia and the Ukraine. http://www.thecid.com/where.htm
Her W mt DNA appears in the Ural mountains and Khazaria included parts of the Ural mountains. Her mother's line may have had some Khazarian DNA, then. It is hard to tell if she has Khazar blood. Some of the Karaite Jews of the Crimea and now of Israel are probably Khazar descendants. The Khazaria royal house converted in the 8th century CE. An Arab historian from the 9th century traced the Khazars back to the Biblical character Khazar, 7th son of Togarmah. Togarmah was considered to be the ancestor of all Turkish tribes and was the grandson of Japhet, the 3rd son of Noah. At any rate, it was really only the royal family that converted, so if my grandmother has some Khazarian blood, she has royal blood as well.
Her last name, Jermulowski, shows that ski meant a place of origin. Where was Jermulow? Was this from German? I don't think so. Could it be from Jerusalem? I haven't been able to find her maiden name in the records of Poland or Lithuania as yet. Zlota immigrated to the state in about 1904 and must have gone straight to Council to join her sisters. There she married Nathan in 1905.
Resource: Book-The Jews of Khazaria p. 227, 55, by Kevin Alan Brook
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baliqchi
http://jewishwebindex.com/Names.htm
Finding Our Fathers-a guidebook to Jewish genealog by Dan Rottenberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania
http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Jewish-Kingdom-of-Khazaria/13139
 |
| Lake McCall, Idaho, where grandparents from Lithuania met and married nearby in Council. |
Our paternal grandparents, Nathan (Hebrew is Natan) Abraham Goldfus/foot b: 1870 in Telsiai, Lithuania and his wife, Hattie "Zlota" Jermulowski/e b: 1875 in Lazdijai, Lithuania had immigrated to the USA and met in Council, Idaho, a little mining mountain town which is now a stop on the way to a lake resort of McCall, Idaho. There, Hattie's sisters and their husbands lived in their first years in the Golden Medina.
Nathan's Y DNA haplogroup is Q1b1 which is found to be in 5% of the Jewish people. . Where did we pick up this male line that is fairly rare?
By following the use of first names, researchers have traced some Jews from Khazaria to Lithuania. In Khazaria, the royal house had converted to Judaism when they were confronted with being forced to make a choice between that and Christianity and Islam. Khazaria was on the Silk Road, and this was either a choice from the heart or from convenience of the times, for the king probably thought that this was the more politically correct choice to avoid a problem. How times change!
An example of using names to trace Khazarian lines is found in the Schechter Letter where there is a character named Pesakh who is the Khazarian baliqchi.
An example of using names to trace Khazarian lines is found in the Schechter Letter where there is a character named Pesakh who is the Khazarian baliqchi.
Pesakh and Pesah were used by Khazarian Jews in the 10th century. It was also a title in the Khazar Khaganate. "The term Baliqchi means "Fisherman." In the Schechter Letter, the Khazar warlord, Pesakh (who was active along the Strait of Kerch) is described with this title. He was an earlier figure in Khazar history,"
The name Pesach or Pesakh was generally only used by Jews in eastern Germany which was the area east of the Elbe River and Eastern Europe as well as with the Karaites and Persian Jews, but not by Sephardic Jews.
The Yiddish form of Peysakh was being used by Jews in Silesia, Poland in the mid-14th century and also in medieval Germany.
The Hebrew word for Passover is the western Ashkenazic form, Peysakh. Pesakh. was used as a first name. During the 15th and 16th centuries, some Jews in Brest, France; Grodno, Belarus; and Pinsk, Belarus used the name, Pesakh.
From the late 15th century onward, Peysakh was found among Jews in Ukraine and Belarus. Peysakh then was chosen as an Ashkenazic surname-Peysakhowitz.
Pesach and the surname of Pesachowitz were used among some Polish Jews into the 19th and 20th centuries.
Nathan is not listed in my Russian -Jewish Given names book by Boris Feldblyum but the Hebrew is listed as Natan, typical from the SW Russian Empire of Volhyn and Podolia Provinces. Neither is Abraham, but in the back of my book, Abram=Avram is listed and it's also on page 34 as Abram of SW Russian Empire Volhyn and Podolia Provinces.
He even named his 3rd child Abraham. Nathan was a family name handed down with its origins not being in Russia. Nathan was tall with brown hair that had red highlights. Zlota had to stand on a chair for him to kiss her. Neither had much of a choice for a spouse, as they were the only 2 Jewish singles in Council and didn't want to wait for any better prospects, I suppose. They were both Litvaks, and that was enough. Besides that, she could cook.
Jews entered Lithuania about in 1321. In 1398, a community -mostly Karaites-existed at Troki.
In 1495, Jews were living in Vilna, Grodno and Kovno totally 10,000. From 1495 (3 years after Spain's expelling Jews not converting) to 1502 they were excluded from Lithuania.
They received a charter in 1529 guaranteeing freedom of movement and employment. Soon they monopolized foreign trade and tax-farming. Yes, that is what my encyclopedia said, whatever tax-farming is.
From 1566 to 1572 the Jews were forced to wear the Jewish badge newly introduced and in legal matters, they were disqualified from giving evidence in court.
 |
| Lake Mastis, Lithuania |
Poland at one time was the largest country in Europe, and included today's Polish borders and Galicia, Lithuania, White Russia and the Ukraine. Their hereditary monarchy came to an end in 1572 and the next 200 years to 1772 had a system of elective monarchy. In 1772 the country was carved up and given out to Germany, Austria and Russia. By 1795, Poland had disappeared from the map altogether. it didn't reappear until 1918.
A chain of Jewish migrations leading from Khazaria went to the Lithuanian Grand Duchy. This Grand Duchy started in the 13th Century and went on till 1795. It got its name from a Baltic tribe. Our surname is German, though, and was originally Goldfus. In fact, it was a German and Austrian Gentile name, too. There are Goldfoot of a different haplogroup, not Jewish. It is, however, not a common name for Jews or Gentiles.
This shows our male line got to Lithuania through the normal highway from Jerusalem in 70 CE from the Romans burning it down and taking over through Rome, France, and then to Germany. When they were not accepted there, they moved on to Eastern Europe, and to Lithuania.
In Austria The Emperor Joseph made Jews take on last names in the late 1700s. Poland in 1821 and Russia in 1844. Probably some of our families have only had last names for 175 years or less. In France and the Anglo Saxon countries surnames went back to the 16th century.
"German Jews had no official surnames prior to the introduction of Judenregelment in 1797" "In most of Germany, Jews didn't have surnames until 1812 or later. Many names they took were based on the profession of the person.
In 1764-66 there were 621,000 Jews in Poland and Lithuania according to the Polish census
Until 1795, Telz, as it is also called, was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom, when the 3rd division of Poland by the 3 superpowers then; Russia, Prussia and Austria-caused Lithuania to become partly Russian and partly Prussian. I believe this is what happened to my grandmother Zlota's Lazdijai. Telz fell under Russian rule, 1st from 1802 as part of the Vilna Province (Gubernia) as a district administrative center and then from 1843 as part of the Kovno Province.
1812 and Napoleon's retreating army passed through Telz, leaving behind desolation and a big gun, now seen in the town park. There were the Polish rebellions of 1831 and 1863. They caused damage.
My grandmother's name, Zlata, is a Russian Jewish name from the Baltic Provinces such as Estland, Courland and Lyfland. It came from Bet shmu'el. She was very short, about 4' 8" at her tallest, and was only 4'6" when she was a grandmother and had had her legs broken on top of that in a pogrom. She had black curly hair, and I thought skin of normal color, not dark or suntanned. Zlata's MT dna haplogroup was W for Wilma. "W (Wilma) is a small group that appears in the western Ural Mountains, the natural border between Europe and Asia and the eastern Baltic area, and is also found in India. Actually, 14 types are found in Ashkenazie Jews that were found by Behar, main researcher in dna of the Jewish people. My grandmother was W 16145A, 16223T, 16265G, 16519C. Jewish W made up 3.1% in a test in Poland and 2.7% in Russia and the Ukraine. http://www.thecid.com/where.htm
Her W mt DNA appears in the Ural mountains and Khazaria included parts of the Ural mountains. Her mother's line may have had some Khazarian DNA, then. It is hard to tell if she has Khazar blood. Some of the Karaite Jews of the Crimea and now of Israel are probably Khazar descendants. The Khazaria royal house converted in the 8th century CE. An Arab historian from the 9th century traced the Khazars back to the Biblical character Khazar, 7th son of Togarmah. Togarmah was considered to be the ancestor of all Turkish tribes and was the grandson of Japhet, the 3rd son of Noah. At any rate, it was really only the royal family that converted, so if my grandmother has some Khazarian blood, she has royal blood as well.
Her last name, Jermulowski, shows that ski meant a place of origin. Where was Jermulow? Was this from German? I don't think so. Could it be from Jerusalem? I haven't been able to find her maiden name in the records of Poland or Lithuania as yet. Zlota immigrated to the state in about 1904 and must have gone straight to Council to join her sisters. There she married Nathan in 1905.
Resource: Book-The Jews of Khazaria p. 227, 55, by Kevin Alan Brook
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baliqchi
http://jewishwebindex.com/Names.htm
Finding Our Fathers-a guidebook to Jewish genealog by Dan Rottenberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania
http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Jewish-Kingdom-of-Khazaria/13139
Labels: Jew, Khazaria, Lake Mastis, Lazdijai, Lithuania, names, Poland, Telsiai, Ural Mountains
Thursday, November 27, 2014
Our Haplogroup of Q1b1a or Q-L245
Nadene Goldfoot
Freddy Krupa of Croatia and head of the Siberian Dragon Ass, . has a great map of the Huns expanding from Mongolia which I just copied for this article. Our Q's came out of parts of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and possibly southern Suadi Arabia 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. He just found that "DEEPAK CHOPRA (Chopra Clan/Gotra from Central Asia) turned out to be Q1b-L275."
This map shows a route our line could have taken, but it misses going into the Mediterranean Sea where our Q has been found. Q-L245 was found from the modern locations of the Ancient city of Ur down to the tip of Saudi Arabia and Oman. This covers the places where ancient Israel, Judah and Sumaria were located. (from Rebecca Canada). It has now been upgraded to be called Q-BZ67.
Going back to my own article written in 2012 on May 28th, "We go back 5,000 years for Q-M378 which includes Q-L245. There are some Q-M378 in the Middle East who are not Q-L245, however. This is why our leaders think that Q-L245 was born in the Middle East now. The age of Q-L245 needs work. Right now, they know that there are at least two branches."
On one of my articles on L-245, a comment left was, "By the way did you know Robert Oppenheimer(Manhattan project) was Q1b?"
Q-L245 as well as Q-M378 has been found throughout Iran. For that matter, it has been found throughout all of the ancient Babylonian and then Persian Empire lands. As long as you are willing to believe that the Babylonian captivity happened and was not an invented story, it makes the presence of Q-L245 in the Jewish populations simple to explain. from RC. Then I can only believe that it's possible our family line was a part of the Jews living in Persia during the days of Queen Esther, subject of our Purim history. Backing up in time to Babylonian attack of 597 and 586 BCE on Judah, the Jews captured were taken to Persia as well as to Babylonia which would be around Iran and Iraq. Strange, the 2 countries had a great war between them in from September 1980 (when I moved to Israel) that lasted till August 1988.
There are plenty of Q-M378 and Q-L245, Q-BZ67 men in Turkey too.
As for the Huns and when they entered the scene of our DNA, The Huns were a nomadic people or peoples, who are known to have lived in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia between the 1st century CE and the 7th century which means 100 BCE to 600 CE. They were first reported living east of the Volga River, in an area that was part of Scythia at the time; the Huns' arrival is associated with the migration westward of a Scythian people, the Alans. They were first mentioned as Hunnoi by Tacitus. In 91 CE, the Huns were said to be living near the Caspian Sea and by about 150 CE had migrated southeast into the Caucasus. By 370 CE, the Huns had established a vast, if short-lived, dominion in Europe.
Now, the Khazars, who lived in what is now southern Russia, had established their own kingdom there and were predominantly Turkic and probably originated in the steppes of central Asia or perhaps in the Ural or Caucasus mountains. Their details of origin are still somewhat obscure. The early 9th century Greek historian, Theophanes, wrote that the Khazars were "eastern Turks." An Arab chronicler, al-Masudi, wrote that the Khazars are a tribe of the Turks. A Chinese chronicle also said that Khazars "belong to the tock of the Turks." A 12th century Rabbi Yehudah ben Barzillai of Barcelona said that the Khazars , who are Turks,'...A 13th century Polish writer, martinus Oppaviensis, called the Khazars Turks.
Most nomadic Turks and Khazars were racially and ethnically mixed. The Turks had people with black hair and dark brown eyes as well as red-haired people with green or hazel eyes and fair-haired people (blondes) with blue eyes. Some had high cheek bones, wide faces and narrow eyes like people of east Asia. Many looked like Europeans or Middle Easterners. Turk is not a racial term but applied to cover many different nomadic tribes who shared a common language and culture. Modern Turks carry these differences.
The Khazars bumped into the Huns. The Hunnic empire (Huns) started in the middle of Asia in the 3rd century BCE. They moved into southern Russia and Crimea by 380 CE. They controlled parts of the steppe lands during the 6th century including the Crimea. Some went into Romania.
By 555, the Khazars were listed among the nomadic tribes living in tents north of the Caucasus Mountains. The Western Turks ruled the Khazars for over 60 years. Khazaria was established as an independent state in the 630s and 640s. by Tong Yabghu's son. It was always multiethnic and mulitireligious throughout its entire existence. In the 7th century, the Khazars assimilated with other tribes and formed the Khaazarians. The Sabirs intermarried with a large part of both the Khazar and Magyar (Hungary) tribes. The Khazars became the dominant power in southern Russia. They displaced the Bulgars (mixed ones).
In the 720, the Khazars moved their capital to Samandar after the Arabs invaded their territory. Sometime between 730 and 750, Atil became the 3rd and final capital of the Khazar Empire. There were Muslim merchants living there.
Atil of 740, the capital had the kagan (king) , the bek, members of the army, 4,000 attendants and "pure-bred Khazars" living in it.
We know the story of Khazaria and how the Kagan chose Judaism over Christianity and Islam for his own religion. His famiiy also went along with his choice. Being such a diverse land, others could choose as they saw fit. It was quite democratic. Khazaria had also become a place of refuge, like an actual city of refuge found in Israel. Jews came here who found it unbearable under the government of other states for Jews who suffered from so much anti-Semitism. Islam had become very demanding for converts after Muhammad had died in 632 so this, plus the Christians after Constantine's rulings expecting all to convert, was too much.
Kiev in Ukraine, the magnificent "Mother of Russian Cities" had Khazaranians and Magyars living in it before Russia gobbled it up. It is on the banks of the Dnieper/Dnipro River. When in Russian hands in the days of Catherine II in 1791 was the ruler, it became one of the states of the Pale of Settlement that also included Latvia, Poland, and Belarus where Jews starting in 1795 under Russian government were allowed to live since Catherine didn't allow them to live in Russia. As it turned out, the less observant Jews tended to live here with the more orthodox living in Lithuania which was a center of Jewish learning.
Update origins: 12/9/2015 Resource: Alfred "Freddy" Krupa
The Jews of Khazaria 2nd edition by Kevin Alan Brook
Abraham's Children by Jon Entine
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pale.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html
Freddy Krupa of Croatia and head of the Siberian Dragon Ass, . has a great map of the Huns expanding from Mongolia which I just copied for this article. Our Q's came out of parts of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and possibly southern Suadi Arabia 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. He just found that "DEEPAK CHOPRA (Chopra Clan/Gotra from Central Asia) turned out to be Q1b-L275."
This map shows a route our line could have taken, but it misses going into the Mediterranean Sea where our Q has been found. Q-L245 was found from the modern locations of the Ancient city of Ur down to the tip of Saudi Arabia and Oman. This covers the places where ancient Israel, Judah and Sumaria were located. (from Rebecca Canada). It has now been upgraded to be called Q-BZ67.
Going back to my own article written in 2012 on May 28th, "We go back 5,000 years for Q-M378 which includes Q-L245. There are some Q-M378 in the Middle East who are not Q-L245, however. This is why our leaders think that Q-L245 was born in the Middle East now. The age of Q-L245 needs work. Right now, they know that there are at least two branches."
On one of my articles on L-245, a comment left was, "By the way did you know Robert Oppenheimer(Manhattan project) was Q1b?"
Q-L245 as well as Q-M378 has been found throughout Iran. For that matter, it has been found throughout all of the ancient Babylonian and then Persian Empire lands. As long as you are willing to believe that the Babylonian captivity happened and was not an invented story, it makes the presence of Q-L245 in the Jewish populations simple to explain. from RC. Then I can only believe that it's possible our family line was a part of the Jews living in Persia during the days of Queen Esther, subject of our Purim history. Backing up in time to Babylonian attack of 597 and 586 BCE on Judah, the Jews captured were taken to Persia as well as to Babylonia which would be around Iran and Iraq. Strange, the 2 countries had a great war between them in from September 1980 (when I moved to Israel) that lasted till August 1988.
There are plenty of Q-M378 and Q-L245, Q-BZ67 men in Turkey too.
As for the Huns and when they entered the scene of our DNA, The Huns were a nomadic people or peoples, who are known to have lived in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia between the 1st century CE and the 7th century which means 100 BCE to 600 CE. They were first reported living east of the Volga River, in an area that was part of Scythia at the time; the Huns' arrival is associated with the migration westward of a Scythian people, the Alans. They were first mentioned as Hunnoi by Tacitus. In 91 CE, the Huns were said to be living near the Caspian Sea and by about 150 CE had migrated southeast into the Caucasus. By 370 CE, the Huns had established a vast, if short-lived, dominion in Europe.
Now, the Khazars, who lived in what is now southern Russia, had established their own kingdom there and were predominantly Turkic and probably originated in the steppes of central Asia or perhaps in the Ural or Caucasus mountains. Their details of origin are still somewhat obscure. The early 9th century Greek historian, Theophanes, wrote that the Khazars were "eastern Turks." An Arab chronicler, al-Masudi, wrote that the Khazars are a tribe of the Turks. A Chinese chronicle also said that Khazars "belong to the tock of the Turks." A 12th century Rabbi Yehudah ben Barzillai of Barcelona said that the Khazars , who are Turks,'...A 13th century Polish writer, martinus Oppaviensis, called the Khazars Turks.
Most nomadic Turks and Khazars were racially and ethnically mixed. The Turks had people with black hair and dark brown eyes as well as red-haired people with green or hazel eyes and fair-haired people (blondes) with blue eyes. Some had high cheek bones, wide faces and narrow eyes like people of east Asia. Many looked like Europeans or Middle Easterners. Turk is not a racial term but applied to cover many different nomadic tribes who shared a common language and culture. Modern Turks carry these differences.
The Khazars bumped into the Huns. The Hunnic empire (Huns) started in the middle of Asia in the 3rd century BCE. They moved into southern Russia and Crimea by 380 CE. They controlled parts of the steppe lands during the 6th century including the Crimea. Some went into Romania.
By 555, the Khazars were listed among the nomadic tribes living in tents north of the Caucasus Mountains. The Western Turks ruled the Khazars for over 60 years. Khazaria was established as an independent state in the 630s and 640s. by Tong Yabghu's son. It was always multiethnic and mulitireligious throughout its entire existence. In the 7th century, the Khazars assimilated with other tribes and formed the Khaazarians. The Sabirs intermarried with a large part of both the Khazar and Magyar (Hungary) tribes. The Khazars became the dominant power in southern Russia. They displaced the Bulgars (mixed ones).
In the 720, the Khazars moved their capital to Samandar after the Arabs invaded their territory. Sometime between 730 and 750, Atil became the 3rd and final capital of the Khazar Empire. There were Muslim merchants living there.
Atil of 740, the capital had the kagan (king) , the bek, members of the army, 4,000 attendants and "pure-bred Khazars" living in it.
We know the story of Khazaria and how the Kagan chose Judaism over Christianity and Islam for his own religion. His famiiy also went along with his choice. Being such a diverse land, others could choose as they saw fit. It was quite democratic. Khazaria had also become a place of refuge, like an actual city of refuge found in Israel. Jews came here who found it unbearable under the government of other states for Jews who suffered from so much anti-Semitism. Islam had become very demanding for converts after Muhammad had died in 632 so this, plus the Christians after Constantine's rulings expecting all to convert, was too much.
Kiev in Ukraine, the magnificent "Mother of Russian Cities" had Khazaranians and Magyars living in it before Russia gobbled it up. It is on the banks of the Dnieper/Dnipro River. When in Russian hands in the days of Catherine II in 1791 was the ruler, it became one of the states of the Pale of Settlement that also included Latvia, Poland, and Belarus where Jews starting in 1795 under Russian government were allowed to live since Catherine didn't allow them to live in Russia. As it turned out, the less observant Jews tended to live here with the more orthodox living in Lithuania which was a center of Jewish learning.
Update origins: 12/9/2015 Resource: Alfred "Freddy" Krupa
The Jews of Khazaria 2nd edition by Kevin Alan Brook
Abraham's Children by Jon Entine
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pale.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
http://jewishfactsfromportland.blogspot.com/2010/01/jewish-genes-what-haplogroup-could-they.html
Labels: Deepak Chopra, Haplogroup Q-L245, Khazaria, Kiev, L275, map of Huns, Pale of Settlement, Turkey, Ukraine
Wednesday, May 02, 2012
New Test for Khazaria Royalty
Nadene Goldfoot
Israeli scientist Dr. Eran Elhaik from John Hopkins University has discovered autosomal signature of the Khazar aristocracy and royalty. Khazars were of Turkish origin, it is thought. They would be the royal family and 4,000 nobles that converted to Judaism in the Empire of Khazaria, which was very large in most of South Russia, in the lower Volga region, going as far as Kiev. which was very powerful from the 8th to the 10th centuries CE. Their King Bulan lived from 786-809 CE. The Khazars had teamed up with Attila the Hun around 452 CE. They fought in company with the Black Huns (Hungarians) and Alans. The Tartars had invaded in 1237, putting an end to the empire. Italians referred to the empire as Gazaria.
Descendants of Khazars have been found among Crimea Karaites, Krimchaks and Jews of Eastern European origin, the latter of which my family comes from. Our grandfather came from Telsiai, Lithuania.
The Jewish population in the entire Khazaria between the 7th and 10th centuries must have been considerable. Caucasian and other Oriental Jews had lived and carried on business with Khazars before the arrival of Jewish fugitives from Christian conversion from Greece in 723 by the Byzantine Emperor Leo. Two Spanish Jews, Judah ben Meir ben Nathan and Joseph Gagris lived in Khazaria. A German Jew living there was Isaac ben Eliezer. It was he who brought a letter to the king. Isaac ben Abraham moved there from Sura. Rahdanite Jewish merchants coming from Spain or France went through the land near the Caspian Sea. These merchants spoke Arabic, Persian, Greek, Spanish, French and Slavonic and traveled continuously from west to east and vice versa by sea and land. They carried with them eunuchs, serving-maids, boys, silks, furs, swords, imported musk, aloes, camphor, cinnamon and other things from the Far East.
This study by Dr. Elhaik comes from Alfred Freddy Krupa. He tells me that to get involved, you need to add your own data set (autosomal raw data from FTDNA Family Finder or Relative Finder of 23 and Me). This is to check to see if you descended from Khazar aristocracy by the way of autosomal DNA.
This information is pertinent for people tested for DNA who are of the Q haplogroup and are Jewish or have Jewish connections, at least discovered through dna. We happen to be Q1b1a, and it's possible we are from this royalty. That's not to say that the E haplogroup or the R haplogroup isn't the main body of royalty there. Hopefully, this test will tell us something. Since our haplogroup makes up only 5% of the male Jewish population, being so small makes me think we could be from this special group of people.
Update: 2/24/14 The latest report is that there is no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews were from Khazaria. http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/study-finds-no-evidence-of-khazar-origin-for-ashkenazi-jews/2014/02/23/
Resource: Alfred Freddy Krupa
http://www.rockethub.com/projects/7471-the-khazar-dna-project
New Jewish Encyclopedia
Jewish Encyclopedia.com 1906 edition
Books to read: The Jews of Khazaria 2nd edition by Kevin Alan Brook, published in 2006
The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler, published in 1976
Israeli scientist Dr. Eran Elhaik from John Hopkins University has discovered autosomal signature of the Khazar aristocracy and royalty. Khazars were of Turkish origin, it is thought. They would be the royal family and 4,000 nobles that converted to Judaism in the Empire of Khazaria, which was very large in most of South Russia, in the lower Volga region, going as far as Kiev. which was very powerful from the 8th to the 10th centuries CE. Their King Bulan lived from 786-809 CE. The Khazars had teamed up with Attila the Hun around 452 CE. They fought in company with the Black Huns (Hungarians) and Alans. The Tartars had invaded in 1237, putting an end to the empire. Italians referred to the empire as Gazaria.
Descendants of Khazars have been found among Crimea Karaites, Krimchaks and Jews of Eastern European origin, the latter of which my family comes from. Our grandfather came from Telsiai, Lithuania.
The Jewish population in the entire Khazaria between the 7th and 10th centuries must have been considerable. Caucasian and other Oriental Jews had lived and carried on business with Khazars before the arrival of Jewish fugitives from Christian conversion from Greece in 723 by the Byzantine Emperor Leo. Two Spanish Jews, Judah ben Meir ben Nathan and Joseph Gagris lived in Khazaria. A German Jew living there was Isaac ben Eliezer. It was he who brought a letter to the king. Isaac ben Abraham moved there from Sura. Rahdanite Jewish merchants coming from Spain or France went through the land near the Caspian Sea. These merchants spoke Arabic, Persian, Greek, Spanish, French and Slavonic and traveled continuously from west to east and vice versa by sea and land. They carried with them eunuchs, serving-maids, boys, silks, furs, swords, imported musk, aloes, camphor, cinnamon and other things from the Far East.
This study by Dr. Elhaik comes from Alfred Freddy Krupa. He tells me that to get involved, you need to add your own data set (autosomal raw data from FTDNA Family Finder or Relative Finder of 23 and Me). This is to check to see if you descended from Khazar aristocracy by the way of autosomal DNA.
This information is pertinent for people tested for DNA who are of the Q haplogroup and are Jewish or have Jewish connections, at least discovered through dna. We happen to be Q1b1a, and it's possible we are from this royalty. That's not to say that the E haplogroup or the R haplogroup isn't the main body of royalty there. Hopefully, this test will tell us something. Since our haplogroup makes up only 5% of the male Jewish population, being so small makes me think we could be from this special group of people.
Update: 2/24/14 The latest report is that there is no evidence that Ashkenazi Jews were from Khazaria. http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/study-finds-no-evidence-of-khazar-origin-for-ashkenazi-jews/2014/02/23/
Resource: Alfred Freddy Krupa
http://www.rockethub.com/projects/7471-the-khazar-dna-project
New Jewish Encyclopedia
Jewish Encyclopedia.com 1906 edition
Books to read: The Jews of Khazaria 2nd edition by Kevin Alan Brook, published in 2006
The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler, published in 1976
Labels: DNA test, Dr. Eran Elhaik, John Hopkins U., Judaism, Khazaria, Royal Family
Monday, February 07, 2011
Re-Surfacing Theory on Khazarians and Jews
The Kazharian theory of the origin of some Jews has surfaced again because it has been found that 38% of Ashkenazi Levites are not from the male (Ydna) Semites but from Sorbians (Eastern European non-Jews).
The Sorbian language group are made up of Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Kashubians around the area of Germany and Poland.
I know that many haplogroups other than Q1b have claimed they are the connection to Khazarians, but this one I fail to undestand. Perhaps someone can explain it to us.
That seems to let Q1b's out because they originated from Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey thousands of years ago, connecting even to the native Americans. However, it seems to me that Turkey was closer to Khazaria than Eastern Europeans were. Q1b's make up about 5% of Jews today.
Resource: Avotaynu, Vol 12 # 5 February 6, 2011
The Sorbian language group are made up of Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Kashubians around the area of Germany and Poland.
I know that many haplogroups other than Q1b have claimed they are the connection to Khazarians, but this one I fail to undestand. Perhaps someone can explain it to us.
That seems to let Q1b's out because they originated from Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey thousands of years ago, connecting even to the native Americans. However, it seems to me that Turkey was closer to Khazaria than Eastern Europeans were. Q1b's make up about 5% of Jews today.
Resource: Avotaynu, Vol 12 # 5 February 6, 2011
Labels: Ashkenazi Jews, Khazaria, Levites
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
Are Q1b Goldfoots from Khazaria? Most Likely Not
Goldfoot belongs to a haplogroup of Q1b, found to be from the Altai Mts in Siberia, Mongolia and parts of Turkey. Those Q1b's who are Jewish make up only 5% of the total Jewish population of today. Some Q1b's are not Jewish. It is theorized that we might be from the royalty of Khazaria. The ruler had converted to Judaism at the heighth of their power in the 700's AD. He did not force the population to convert. Others say that this is impossible to be from Khazaria. Now the theory of Q1b being from Khazaria is quite dead. It is even thought that some R1's could be the Khazarians.
Khazaria was on the Silk Road and involved with trading. Kagan "King" Bulan had three speakers come to him; a Christian, Muslim, and Jew. He had decided on becoming Jewish. He and his royal court converted.
I'd like to know who we would have sprouted from if it isn't Khazaria. We had a common male ancestor from 1,000 years ago from these mountains. Since we descendants have a high percentage of a Jewish heritage, I deduce that this 1,000 yr old ancestor was also Jewish. He must have lived in a Jewish community at that time as the descendants found tend to be Jewish, too. The geographical origins do not hold Jewish strongholds except Khazaria that I know of. Jews are not people known to proselyze so we've never sent people out in the hinterlands to do so. We have moved around a lot for purposes of trade. Cohen haplogroups have been found in a tribe in Africa. One tribe there has even claimed ownership to Moses's ark. The Queen of Sheba and her entourage went back to their home in Africa pregnant after visiting King Solomon. We have their descendants now living in Israel.
Dan Kurzman back in 1948 wrote about Khazarians in an ibid in his book "Genesis 1948."
The Arabs roaming about in Palestine before the advent of Israel's birth on May 14, 1948 commented that all Jews were descendants from the Khazar tribes of southern Russia who had embraced Judaism. They didn't know that dna testing would prove otherwise. Now we know of the haplogroup that shows Cohens-direct descendants from Moses and Aaron, and other Jews from the Middle East.
In his reference, Kurzman had this comment. In the year A.D. 740, a Tartaric warrior people living in the kingdom of Khazar on the western shore of the Caspian Sea, speaking Greek and practicing a blend of Christianity and paganism, were converted to Judaism under their king, Bulan. However, in 969, and army from Kiev defeated the Khazars, incorporated their territory into a new Russian state, and reconverted them to Christianity. In 1500, another incredible episode took place in Russia when two Greek Orthodox priests in Lithuania converted to Judaism, proselytized in the hinterland, and won thousands of other converts, including the daughter-in-law of the Duke of Moscow. The frightened Orthodox Church stamped out the rush to Judaism by drowning 300 Jews as a form of "baptism," and trying-unsuccessfully-to banish the rest from Russian territory.
I just heard about something similar to this at our genealogy meeting from Hal Bookbinder of UCLA. After Russia was upset because some Russian citizens were captivated by Judaism, they decided to oust Jews from "Old Russia" by confining us to the Pale of Russia.
We're lucky in being able to pinpoint our geographical origins and years from a common ancestor. Now we just need a map dating 1,000 years back showing the area and its religious groups.
Resource: added 6/6/10 http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/06/tracing-the-roots-of-jewishness.html?etoc
Khazaria was on the Silk Road and involved with trading. Kagan "King" Bulan had three speakers come to him; a Christian, Muslim, and Jew. He had decided on becoming Jewish. He and his royal court converted.
I'd like to know who we would have sprouted from if it isn't Khazaria. We had a common male ancestor from 1,000 years ago from these mountains. Since we descendants have a high percentage of a Jewish heritage, I deduce that this 1,000 yr old ancestor was also Jewish. He must have lived in a Jewish community at that time as the descendants found tend to be Jewish, too. The geographical origins do not hold Jewish strongholds except Khazaria that I know of. Jews are not people known to proselyze so we've never sent people out in the hinterlands to do so. We have moved around a lot for purposes of trade. Cohen haplogroups have been found in a tribe in Africa. One tribe there has even claimed ownership to Moses's ark. The Queen of Sheba and her entourage went back to their home in Africa pregnant after visiting King Solomon. We have their descendants now living in Israel.
Dan Kurzman back in 1948 wrote about Khazarians in an ibid in his book "Genesis 1948."
The Arabs roaming about in Palestine before the advent of Israel's birth on May 14, 1948 commented that all Jews were descendants from the Khazar tribes of southern Russia who had embraced Judaism. They didn't know that dna testing would prove otherwise. Now we know of the haplogroup that shows Cohens-direct descendants from Moses and Aaron, and other Jews from the Middle East.
In his reference, Kurzman had this comment. In the year A.D. 740, a Tartaric warrior people living in the kingdom of Khazar on the western shore of the Caspian Sea, speaking Greek and practicing a blend of Christianity and paganism, were converted to Judaism under their king, Bulan. However, in 969, and army from Kiev defeated the Khazars, incorporated their territory into a new Russian state, and reconverted them to Christianity. In 1500, another incredible episode took place in Russia when two Greek Orthodox priests in Lithuania converted to Judaism, proselytized in the hinterland, and won thousands of other converts, including the daughter-in-law of the Duke of Moscow. The frightened Orthodox Church stamped out the rush to Judaism by drowning 300 Jews as a form of "baptism," and trying-unsuccessfully-to banish the rest from Russian territory.
I just heard about something similar to this at our genealogy meeting from Hal Bookbinder of UCLA. After Russia was upset because some Russian citizens were captivated by Judaism, they decided to oust Jews from "Old Russia" by confining us to the Pale of Russia.
We're lucky in being able to pinpoint our geographical origins and years from a common ancestor. Now we just need a map dating 1,000 years back showing the area and its religious groups.
Resource: added 6/6/10 http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/06/tracing-the-roots-of-jewishness.html?etoc
Labels: Khazaria, Q1b haplogroup
Tuesday, March 02, 2010
DNA Cousin Connections to Khazaria
We connect with Alfred Krupa's family some 400 to 600 years ago which would be between the years 1410 and 1610 with 84.28% to 98.10% accuracy in having a common ancestor. . Our father's lines stemmed from one man born 1,000 years ago. My father's father is thought to have come from Lithuania. In 1910 it was called "Russia." Alfred's grandfather came from Poland. Both men were Jewish and are Q1b's. through familytreedna we have discovered these facts. We have found that Q1b's make up only 5% of the Jewish population. Alfred has good reason to think we were of the royalty of the Ashina Royal Dynasty, which was a part of the Khazarian Empire.
I'm reading Arthur Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe" which is his study of Khazaria, and have already read Kevin Alan Brook's "The Jews of Khazaria, 2nd edition. Since both authors have written their books, the science of dna has uncovered this haplogroup.
According to familytreedna our line comes from the Altay Mountains, which is a mountain range in central Asia where Russia, China, Mongolia and Kazakhstan come together and where the rivers Irtysh, Ob and Ynisei have their sources. These mountains are known as the Turkic peoples' birthplace, and of course, the Khazarians were considered Turkic people which were of many tribes. The name in Turkic of Alytau or Altay means Al (gold) and tau (mount) or mountains of Gold which is also Altain in Mongolian. The proposed Altaic language family takes its name from the mountain range.
This is so fitting for our family to have taken the name of Goldfoot. It sounds like we were walking around searching for gold or walking through gold.
According to history, many of the citizens of Khazaria of the Royal dynasty converted along with the Kagan's family to Judaism, and when the empire fell, they migrated to Russia and Poland , but, according to Rebekah Canada's research, there are no Q's in Lithuania (except us Goldfoots) . A significant number of the Q's found in Ashkenazic and Sephardic populations is in the southern part of Central Asia, around the Black Sea and across the Mediterranean coast. she stated.
The haplogroups R1a which is found in Israel, R1b, R2 and Q all split off from P. Q split off in Central Asia. Some must have moved into Siberia and then across into the Americas who became our Native Americans, she continued.
To prove Royal Khazarian ancestry, we need to find some remains and take dna tests. Kevin Brook sent out news last year that I downloaded on March 13, 2009 that the ruins of Atil, the capital of the Khazar Empire from the 8th to the 10th century have been found at Samosdelka at the Volga River's delta near the NW corner of the Caspian Sea, SW of modern Astrkhan. The archaeological news was announced actually on March 15, 2007. Excavations were going on from 2000 to 2004.
The History of Khazaria was written by Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi of Spain. It took him over 20 years to write this history and he completed it in 1140. This is called the Kuzari and it has enthralled generations of Jews and gentiles alike with its clear-cut presentation on Judaism. In it is a dialog between King Bulan of the Khazars and a rabbi. Rabbi Eliyahu (the "Gaon") of Vilna said that this Kuzari is one of the most revered Jewish philosophical works of all time. The fundamentals of Israel's faith and the Torah are contained within. No Jewish artifacts have been found at Samosdelka which makes Archaeologist Dmitriy Vasil'yev think that most Khazars did not practice Judaism. We do know that the Royal family chose to do so but did not make others follow suit. Vasil'yev also told that the investigated area covered more than 2 square kilometers (0.77 sq miles) and that the population was about 50,000 to 60,000.
It's too bad they weren't searching for bones or graveyards in order to do dna tests. Perhaps it can still be done. We're going to have a terrible time identifying Kagan Bulan's remains, though. Accoding to Koestler, he was buried in a secret place and it was then flooded. The people who buried him were killed, like what I have seen done in Egyptian pharoah movies. However, there were other members of royalty, so perhaps they could uncover them.
According to author Kevin Alan Brook's webpage, the Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria dated from 652 to 1016.
I'm reading Arthur Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe" which is his study of Khazaria, and have already read Kevin Alan Brook's "The Jews of Khazaria, 2nd edition. Since both authors have written their books, the science of dna has uncovered this haplogroup.
According to familytreedna our line comes from the Altay Mountains, which is a mountain range in central Asia where Russia, China, Mongolia and Kazakhstan come together and where the rivers Irtysh, Ob and Ynisei have their sources. These mountains are known as the Turkic peoples' birthplace, and of course, the Khazarians were considered Turkic people which were of many tribes. The name in Turkic of Alytau or Altay means Al (gold) and tau (mount) or mountains of Gold which is also Altain in Mongolian. The proposed Altaic language family takes its name from the mountain range.
This is so fitting for our family to have taken the name of Goldfoot. It sounds like we were walking around searching for gold or walking through gold.
According to history, many of the citizens of Khazaria of the Royal dynasty converted along with the Kagan's family to Judaism, and when the empire fell, they migrated to Russia and Poland , but, according to Rebekah Canada's research, there are no Q's in Lithuania (except us Goldfoots) . A significant number of the Q's found in Ashkenazic and Sephardic populations is in the southern part of Central Asia, around the Black Sea and across the Mediterranean coast. she stated.
The haplogroups R1a which is found in Israel, R1b, R2 and Q all split off from P. Q split off in Central Asia. Some must have moved into Siberia and then across into the Americas who became our Native Americans, she continued.
To prove Royal Khazarian ancestry, we need to find some remains and take dna tests. Kevin Brook sent out news last year that I downloaded on March 13, 2009 that the ruins of Atil, the capital of the Khazar Empire from the 8th to the 10th century have been found at Samosdelka at the Volga River's delta near the NW corner of the Caspian Sea, SW of modern Astrkhan. The archaeological news was announced actually on March 15, 2007. Excavations were going on from 2000 to 2004.
The History of Khazaria was written by Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi of Spain. It took him over 20 years to write this history and he completed it in 1140. This is called the Kuzari and it has enthralled generations of Jews and gentiles alike with its clear-cut presentation on Judaism. In it is a dialog between King Bulan of the Khazars and a rabbi. Rabbi Eliyahu (the "Gaon") of Vilna said that this Kuzari is one of the most revered Jewish philosophical works of all time. The fundamentals of Israel's faith and the Torah are contained within. No Jewish artifacts have been found at Samosdelka which makes Archaeologist Dmitriy Vasil'yev think that most Khazars did not practice Judaism. We do know that the Royal family chose to do so but did not make others follow suit. Vasil'yev also told that the investigated area covered more than 2 square kilometers (0.77 sq miles) and that the population was about 50,000 to 60,000.
It's too bad they weren't searching for bones or graveyards in order to do dna tests. Perhaps it can still be done. We're going to have a terrible time identifying Kagan Bulan's remains, though. Accoding to Koestler, he was buried in a secret place and it was then flooded. The people who buried him were killed, like what I have seen done in Egyptian pharoah movies. However, there were other members of royalty, so perhaps they could uncover them.
According to author Kevin Alan Brook's webpage, the Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria dated from 652 to 1016.
Sunday, February 07, 2010
Q1b's: To be from Khazaria or Not to Be: That Is The Question
I ran into several questions about knowing if our Q1b haplogroup is of the Ashina Royal Dynasty of Khazaria or not. Alfred Krupa has done extensive research on his surname which has led him to this discovery and has shared with those of us who share the same haplogroup.
The interesting thing is that I see on page 2 of Kevin Alan Bacon's "The Jews of Khazaria" under "The Turkic Heritage" the line: "The Khazars were predominantly Turkic and probably originated in the steppes of central Asia, or perhaps in the Ural or Caucasus mountains."
Our Q1b haplogroup is said to have originated in the Altai Mountains of Turkey, Mongolia and Siberia, and this is from information at familytreedna.
The Turkic peoples (or simply Turks) are Eurasian peoples residing in northern, central and western Asia, Mongolia, southern Siberia and northwestern China and parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.[4] They share, to varying degrees, certain cultural traits and historical backgrounds. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of people including existing societies such as the Azerbaijani, Kazakhs, Tatar, Kyrgyz, Turkish, Turkmen, Uyghur, Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Qashqai, Gagauzs, Yakuts, Karakalpaks, Karachays, Krymchaks, Nogais and as well as past civilizations such as the Bulgars, Kumans, Avars, Seljuks, Khazars, Ottomans, Mamluks, Timurids, and possibly the Xiongnu and Huns[4][5][6].
According to Turkic legend, continues Kevin, which are found in Chinese chronicles, an exciting legend takes place when a son was named Ak-shih-na and his tribe became powerful and expanded. All 10 sons settled along the southern slope of the Altai Mountains....so there we have our geography in agreement with science. page 2.
It's my grandfather's wife who belongs to the W mtdna haplogroup which is said to originate from the Ural mountains. The Ural Mountains (Russian: are a mountain range that runs roughly north-south through western Russia. They are usually considered the natural boundary between Europe and Asia.
My grandparents met in Council, Idaho, a little mining town on the way to a ski resort (today) after immigrating from "Russia" and Suwalki, Poland and married in 1905. There he must have been on the train that just passed through recently for the first time and found her and her family there. What are the chances of that happening? Both were Jewish, so naturally the only available Jewish boy married the only available Jewish gal. One giveaway was that they both spoke Yiddish, and hopefully the same dialect of Yiddish.
Even more unusual is the fact that Q1b occurs in only 5% of the male Jewish population, and W is also a very small haplogroup for women. I don't know what % of Jewish women belong to this group, but it most likely is also very small making this event of happening most unlikely being they did not meet in Eastern Europe in their hometowns.
So the question remains: which one is the one with roots in Khazaria? Could they both be? Now I'll have to start reading more about the W women from the area.
The interesting thing is that I see on page 2 of Kevin Alan Bacon's "The Jews of Khazaria" under "The Turkic Heritage" the line: "The Khazars were predominantly Turkic and probably originated in the steppes of central Asia, or perhaps in the Ural or Caucasus mountains."
Our Q1b haplogroup is said to have originated in the Altai Mountains of Turkey, Mongolia and Siberia, and this is from information at familytreedna.
The Turkic peoples (or simply Turks) are Eurasian peoples residing in northern, central and western Asia, Mongolia, southern Siberia and northwestern China and parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.[4] They share, to varying degrees, certain cultural traits and historical backgrounds. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of people including existing societies such as the Azerbaijani, Kazakhs, Tatar, Kyrgyz, Turkish, Turkmen, Uyghur, Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Qashqai, Gagauzs, Yakuts, Karakalpaks, Karachays, Krymchaks, Nogais and as well as past civilizations such as the Bulgars, Kumans, Avars, Seljuks, Khazars, Ottomans, Mamluks, Timurids, and possibly the Xiongnu and Huns[4][5][6].
According to Turkic legend, continues Kevin, which are found in Chinese chronicles, an exciting legend takes place when a son was named Ak-shih-na and his tribe became powerful and expanded. All 10 sons settled along the southern slope of the Altai Mountains....so there we have our geography in agreement with science. page 2.
It's my grandfather's wife who belongs to the W mtdna haplogroup which is said to originate from the Ural mountains. The Ural Mountains (Russian: are a mountain range that runs roughly north-south through western Russia. They are usually considered the natural boundary between Europe and Asia.
My grandparents met in Council, Idaho, a little mining town on the way to a ski resort (today) after immigrating from "Russia" and Suwalki, Poland and married in 1905. There he must have been on the train that just passed through recently for the first time and found her and her family there. What are the chances of that happening? Both were Jewish, so naturally the only available Jewish boy married the only available Jewish gal. One giveaway was that they both spoke Yiddish, and hopefully the same dialect of Yiddish.
Even more unusual is the fact that Q1b occurs in only 5% of the male Jewish population, and W is also a very small haplogroup for women. I don't know what % of Jewish women belong to this group, but it most likely is also very small making this event of happening most unlikely being they did not meet in Eastern Europe in their hometowns.
So the question remains: which one is the one with roots in Khazaria? Could they both be? Now I'll have to start reading more about the W women from the area.
Labels: Altai Mountains, Khazaria, Ural Mountains
Sunday, June 21, 2009
Continually Discovering My Roots through DNA
by Nadene Goldfoot
Edited again 10/5/2012
Q1b1's haplogroup make up 5% of the entire Jewish population which amounts to about 1% or less of the world population, so I’m in a very small group of people. Through DNA at familytreedna in Houston, I’ve discovered my roots go back thousands of years to one man from the Altay Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and a little of Turkey. This was done by testing my brother for our grandfather’s origins, and is only done with the male, called a Ydna test. Besides my brother, I had found a 2nd cousin of Stanley Goldfoot, another Goldfoot, thank goodness, working right in Houston, Texas having immigrated there from South Africa. I had already met Stanley in Jerusalem when I lived in Israel from 1980-1985. Stanley turned out to be the former Chief of Intelligence for the Stern Group, a fighting group of Jews helping Israel to become a state. Both my brother and the 2nd cousin were tested and both were found to be Q1b’s, or Q1b1a or Q L245, so I’ve known we are related, but lacked a paper trail.
At first we thought we were of the Khazarian Jews. The Chinese held the records of Khazarian Jews. . The Ashina Turkic people were acting more as a noble or royal line which played the role of a political entity unifying various Turkic speaking tribes. It was also known as a Desert aristocracy and it was a ruling class of a number of central Asian empires, and eventually it became the ruling class or nobility known as khagans or emperors of the Khazarian Khaganate in the early middle ages in the year 656 AD after the collapse of the Gokturk Empire under pressure from the resurgent Uyghurs. Then branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe where they became the kaghans of the Khazars. From there it was easy to get into Russia. My grandfather, I presume, was from Lithuania and Ashkenazi, and to find that my roots lie in Mongolia and Siberia thousands of years ago was quite a surprise. But my Q line is not thought today to be from Khazaria. More likely it is from the Middle East around Ur, which today is in Iraq. Another dna grouping, the R1's are thought to be from Khazaria's royal line that converted to Judaism.
It was Arthur Koestler who wrote "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976 that caused people to think that all Ashkenazi Jews were actually from Khazaria and not directly from the tribe of Judah. DNA evidence since then shows he was very wrong. The haplogroup of R1b is thought to be from Khazaria. Our Q line has evidence that suggests it is more likely to be from the Mediterranean area, probably around Ur. The largest group of Jews today are of the haplogroup J1, which is called the Cohen gene. Yes, the Jews living in Israel today are mostly from the tribe of Judah.
Actually, I am reminded that if I go back even farther, we really did start in the Middle East with our male line being P haplogroup. It had the two lines branch off of it which were Q and R.
What happened was that the ruling class of the Khazarian Empire (Khagan Bulan and 4,000 of his nobles, converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD. Originally they were people who were practicing Turkish shamanism. The head Khagan heard speakers of Christianity, Muslims and Jews speak and he chose Judasim. They did not force any conversion. It seems that only the ruling class of the Khazars became Jews. Abba Eban stated that it appears that the majority of the population remained either Christian or Moslem. I can take it then that being Jewish was a royal thing to be.
You may remember that one of our past speakers was Kevin Alan Brook who wrote "The Jews of Khazaria." For some time we haven’t really been sure about whether or not our rare dna really came from Khazaria, but we have now come to this conclusion. We are all marked by a rare mutation called M378 and fit into a haplotype-a sequence of genetic markers-peculiar to us. Not surprising to me, we’re all a rather learned group. I’ve just gone for the 67 allele marker test and will receive the results around July 6th. We are likely to find that many of the 300 people so far discovered will easily be my 7th or 8th cousins, having an ancestor less than 300 years ago.
The group is organized with several heads that have taken various aspects on as responsibilites..
PS: 1/26/10: There are known skeletons of Khazars from the Don-valley (Sarkel, Semikarakovskoye, etc.) and from the Crimea (e.g., Sudak). It is important to note that Khazarian skeletons and North Caucasian Turks have not yet been used to compare Jewish genes with likely traces of the Khazars. Thus, the Khazar theory has not really been put to the genetic test yet. Some historians and scientists are starting to recognize the need for specifically testing the Khazar theory, rather than generalizing based on studies of other non-Khazar populations:
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Edited again 10/5/2012
Q1b1's haplogroup make up 5% of the entire Jewish population which amounts to about 1% or less of the world population, so I’m in a very small group of people. Through DNA at familytreedna in Houston, I’ve discovered my roots go back thousands of years to one man from the Altay Mountains in Mongolia, Siberia and a little of Turkey. This was done by testing my brother for our grandfather’s origins, and is only done with the male, called a Ydna test. Besides my brother, I had found a 2nd cousin of Stanley Goldfoot, another Goldfoot, thank goodness, working right in Houston, Texas having immigrated there from South Africa. I had already met Stanley in Jerusalem when I lived in Israel from 1980-1985. Stanley turned out to be the former Chief of Intelligence for the Stern Group, a fighting group of Jews helping Israel to become a state. Both my brother and the 2nd cousin were tested and both were found to be Q1b’s, or Q1b1a or Q L245, so I’ve known we are related, but lacked a paper trail.
At first we thought we were of the Khazarian Jews. The Chinese held the records of Khazarian Jews. . The Ashina Turkic people were acting more as a noble or royal line which played the role of a political entity unifying various Turkic speaking tribes. It was also known as a Desert aristocracy and it was a ruling class of a number of central Asian empires, and eventually it became the ruling class or nobility known as khagans or emperors of the Khazarian Khaganate in the early middle ages in the year 656 AD after the collapse of the Gokturk Empire under pressure from the resurgent Uyghurs. Then branches of the Ashina clan moved westward to Europe where they became the kaghans of the Khazars. From there it was easy to get into Russia. My grandfather, I presume, was from Lithuania and Ashkenazi, and to find that my roots lie in Mongolia and Siberia thousands of years ago was quite a surprise. But my Q line is not thought today to be from Khazaria. More likely it is from the Middle East around Ur, which today is in Iraq. Another dna grouping, the R1's are thought to be from Khazaria's royal line that converted to Judaism.
It was Arthur Koestler who wrote "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976 that caused people to think that all Ashkenazi Jews were actually from Khazaria and not directly from the tribe of Judah. DNA evidence since then shows he was very wrong. The haplogroup of R1b is thought to be from Khazaria. Our Q line has evidence that suggests it is more likely to be from the Mediterranean area, probably around Ur. The largest group of Jews today are of the haplogroup J1, which is called the Cohen gene. Yes, the Jews living in Israel today are mostly from the tribe of Judah.
Actually, I am reminded that if I go back even farther, we really did start in the Middle East with our male line being P haplogroup. It had the two lines branch off of it which were Q and R.
What happened was that the ruling class of the Khazarian Empire (Khagan Bulan and 4,000 of his nobles, converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD. Originally they were people who were practicing Turkish shamanism. The head Khagan heard speakers of Christianity, Muslims and Jews speak and he chose Judasim. They did not force any conversion. It seems that only the ruling class of the Khazars became Jews. Abba Eban stated that it appears that the majority of the population remained either Christian or Moslem. I can take it then that being Jewish was a royal thing to be.
You may remember that one of our past speakers was Kevin Alan Brook who wrote "The Jews of Khazaria." For some time we haven’t really been sure about whether or not our rare dna really came from Khazaria, but we have now come to this conclusion. We are all marked by a rare mutation called M378 and fit into a haplotype-a sequence of genetic markers-peculiar to us. Not surprising to me, we’re all a rather learned group. I’ve just gone for the 67 allele marker test and will receive the results around July 6th. We are likely to find that many of the 300 people so far discovered will easily be my 7th or 8th cousins, having an ancestor less than 300 years ago.
The group is organized with several heads that have taken various aspects on as responsibilites..
PS: 1/26/10: There are known skeletons of Khazars from the Don-valley (Sarkel, Semikarakovskoye, etc.) and from the Crimea (e.g., Sudak). It is important to note that Khazarian skeletons and North Caucasian Turks have not yet been used to compare Jewish genes with likely traces of the Khazars. Thus, the Khazar theory has not really been put to the genetic test yet. Some historians and scientists are starting to recognize the need for specifically testing the Khazar theory, rather than generalizing based on studies of other non-Khazar populations:
.
Labels: DNA test, evidence, Khazaria, present dna conclusions, Q1b haplogroup, Royal Ashina Dynasty, Ur
